Points system sound off

Hello John,

I don't like the point system as it is now, because it mixes up the different ways to contribute to ZCS.

One way is by posting pictures and writing messages, which I still would like to have, but it might be through another system. BTW: where are those old statistics about number of messages and most read threads and such?

The other way is/was(?) by donating money to ZCS. I think that this is still a good way to help getting this project afloat, but since different persons have different abilities for that it somewhat makes those Z-points (sorry for the next wording, but here I'm lost between the languages, so I will go for:) not perfect. What I mean is that just because I can afford to pay a certain amount of money I'm not better then someone else who can't afford that, but instead gives his input in one way or another through his messages. This especially since one would have to write lot's of messages for the number of point he got for $20...

About the posting counter with it's rating as someone between switchman and tycoon, people got cheated of my rating, currently as engineer, since I'm marked as "German Moderator" with all buttons filled. Besides, how are those are set for the different ranks? Two ranks for a new button filled?


Underlying question here is: Is there still an option, or shall there be an option to contribute money to ZCS?

If you are a Supporter of the Trainboard, you get a nice Supporter of Trainboard/Railimages designator under your Forum name. Some say Trainboard Member, some are Trainboard Moderator, Trainboard Senior Member and there are possibly more.

Each is a Designator.

As a Trainboard Supporter, you can contribute whatever you want to TB depending on what benefits you want. But, you only get a designator, NOT POINTS!!!!!!

I have nothing against supporting a forum with donations, but don't list it where it possibly causes any kind of animosity towards fellow forum members. Yes, that is how I see it.

There has been alot of instances, in the past, where Z scalers have tried to divide the Z community. I joined Yahoo Z_Scale back in early 2004. Since then I have seen the Marklin vs MTL, and MTL vs Marklin, and AZL vs MTL, and MTL vs AZL, and Ztrack vs MRer, and Z_Scale vs ZCS and ZCS vs TB and so on and so on. Even know of fellow Z scalers who have have a strong hatred towards Ztrack. Is this what we desire???? To add to this list with POINTS that can cause another source of animosity amongst fellow Z scalers?

Just because Z scale is growing faster now than what it was in the early part of this decade doesn't mean we need to continue to divide the newbies!!!

If you want to support ZCS with monetary means, why not have added benefits for this option. TB has Railimages to download near unlimited photos to. Not everyone needs this option, but I do. My near un-exhaustible megabytes of Railimages is half full of photos. Hundreds of photos!!!!

POINTS!!!!!! Nah!!!!!!!!

Dish out Designators!!!!! One level of designator!!! No color codes, no numbers, no levels, just a simple designator!!!!!!!!

Enough Said!!!

Hobo Tim

Tim, Not only enough said, but fairly well said. You may have been a bit over dramatic, but that,s ok, it shows your passion. On the other hand try not to have a heart attack over something like this. Your Trainboard 'copying' idea is probably the best answer. It works there and encourages some members to fork over some cash without causing any issues. I fought the battles there last year with the photo awards moderators. They wanted stars, sergeant strips, dots and other displays for the multiple contest winners. I won about half of the contests and when asked I very forcibly got the idea of enhancements to the simple "Photo Award Winner" sign thrown out. No reason to pile on or be piled on. Same will work here with a simple 'ZCS Supporter' moniker somewhere on the Home Page. Posting totals should be kept as this is a tradition on all these sites and is for the most part hidden. As stated before, ZPoints should go. Jim

Thank you Jim!

You know, I have been scolded many times from a few of my close Z scale friends for opening my mouth and saying what I really want to say. They say that because I am a manufacturer of Z goods I can no longer say what needs to be said or critisize anyone or anything. Well, for those who are reading this, I consider myself a MODELER first and a Manufacturer second. I hate the word Politically Correct so what I do instead, is to use a great amount of TACT in the wording of my messages, but there are some instances where common sense trumps even tact. So, if I ever offend anyone to the point where they say they will never buy anything, that I make, ever again, so be it. It'll be your loss!!!!

Over dramatic? Nahhhhhhhhhh!!! Just a slight expression with limited tact.

I personnaly think that the point system, although good intended, turned out to be a not so good way of expressing what the real intent was. Simple Designators would be better in my opinion.

Ok, let the hate speech proceed!!!

Hobo Tim

The collector of an overly abundant supply of Common Sense!!!!

Tim, maybe I am in the minority, but I always like to hear what you have to say.

I have to agree with ULie that the current points system is confusing. I don't believe that points should be awarded for monetary contributions. On the other hand, take away all recognition of support, and members will forget to donate. (there's no motivation)

I like Z points. In addition to the forum ranking/number of posts, its a more meaningful number to tell you how active a member is. Take away Z points, and you take away part of the fun, I think.

I feel there may be a conflict of interest in making contributions to a commercial website. First of all, actual operating costs must be met. Obviously, the proprieter also has the opportunity and the right to profit as well. Now, because the ordinary member has no idea of how much costs are, or how much current demand there is for support, all we can do is guess. We could all donate generously and it would become profitable for the owner. Or we might all guess that needs are met and funds would dry up.

My suggestion is to establish an annual operating cost and to divide that into a fixed number of shares that could be voluntarily purchased by members, similar to the way contributions were made before. This would accomplish 3 things:

1. Provide separation between for-profit and not-for-profit support.

2. Inform members of the amount of support that is needed. (Now a member can easily gauge an amount he is comfortable with/capable of.)

3. Provide motivation. (Perhaps there is a way of rewarding "shareholders" independantly of the points system, if any reward is deemed necessary.)

I'm not saying that I wouldn't willingly support the site the way it is now, only that perhaps it should be more clearly defined.

I certainly like the idea of having an indicator of where the site stands regarding costs being covered ... I've blindly contributed in the past without really knowing what those funds helped to accomplish so some indication of share value and how well funded the site is would be great.

I agree with both Josiah And Brads Posts. I also like the idea of some measure that would indicate how active a member is.
Fred

Just people,

Dont forget, this is a hobby and neither way of life
or job. Sometimes I am afraid about how serious, specially
the Z community, takes this free time occupation.
If I, but I am perhaps an exception will have the feeling
at a certain moment, that I have obligations on my hobbies,
I will throw the stuff to trashbin.